BACA, BAKKAH & MECCA, MAKKAH

The name "Makka", is mentioned in Quran surah 48:24, and again in 33:50 (but in parentheses), and some suggest it is one and the same with the name "Bakka", that is supposedly found in Surah 3:96. But even if Mohammed had used two names for Mecca, Islam's holiest city and the epicenter of Muhammad's religion allegedly since Adam, it would still only be mentioned three times in the Quran. Compare this with the name "Jerusalem", which is mentioned over 800 times in the King James Bible.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Few things more clearly demonstrate the absence of a love of truth among Muhammad's followers, and willingness to blindly parrot their dissimulating deceiving hero's taqiyyah, than this subject. The struggle over the content of this subject, that propagandizes with a transparent falsehood, also demonstrates the Islamization of Wikipedia. To discuss this subject and much more, please join us in the Islam-Christian Forum, by clicking here.

There is no historical or archaeological record that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, yet some Muslims try to suggest that there is a scriptural reference to Mecca mentioned in the Old Testament as "Baca", by removing the following verse from context and trying to suggest a similarity between the 3,000 year old Hebrew name "Baca" and the 7th century Quraish Arabic word "Bakkah", in the Quran.

Their excitement builds as the term "well" is mentioned in the same verse, as if perhaps the well of Zamzam was the only well on earth. This even though actual Islamic history recorded that the well of Zamzam was dug by Mohammed's grandfather Abdel Mutaleb in the 6th century, when it was dedicated to the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn devil religion, Asaf and Naelah. Please see the Hajj and Umrah page for more on that subject.

No matter which Bible version is used, they all indicate the same thing. Let alone that Zion is mentioned 153 times in the Bible because it is the name of the easternmost hill of the city of Jerusalem. "Zion" is a place name and synonym for Jerusalem.

Since the well of Zamzam lies 1400 kilometers across harsh barren desert, away from the temple site in Jerusalem, the whole notion that this verse has anything to do with Mecca is obviously utterly ridiculous.

(URL) Here is the way Muhammad's followers partially, and thus deceptively, quote Psalms 84 from the Jewish Study Bible, in the Wikipedia article (as of 9-1-14) as well as perhaps in thousands of websites and no shortage of YouTube videos:

"How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ..... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ..... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked."

So what do the verses say that Muhammad's followers replaced with the "....."? L et's investigate the passage, and put in bold red font what was omitted, in this typical exercise in Islamic dissimulation/taqiyyah:

"How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the LORD; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself in which to set her young, near Your altar, O LORD of hosts, my king and my God. Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Selah. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing. They go from rampart to rampart, appearing before God in Zion. O Lord, God of hosts, hear my prayer; give ear, O God of Jacob. O God, behold our shield, look upon the face of Your anointed. Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God’s house than dwell in the tents of the wicked."*

Is it a surprise that the parrots of the Greek sophist styled entertainers and masters of deception like Ahmed Deedat, his self-described disciple "Dr." Zakir Naik, and others like Yusuf Estes - all three of whom peddle this ridiculous notion with which they dupe their sorely deceived Bible-ignorant geography-challenged adoring minions - censored out the only verse that is germane to the location of the pilgrimage described!

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

Let alone the abject ignorance to scripture, history and particularly geography required, to suggest that YHWH's people turned their backs on their temple in Jerusalem - in Zion where the temple mount still stands - to wander across 1400 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, harsh, dry, waterless, barren, desert wasteland, over a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea in Arabia, to go to a town in the SW Arabian desert that did not exist until 2,000 years later in the 4th century AD. Then presumably they marched around the Quraish's black stone idol and 5th-century Kaaba seven times, and then wandered back home to Jerusalem! Doesn't that make about as much sense as believing Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael made the same trip, at an even earlier point in time?

“The Valley of Rephaim lay southwest of Jerusalem and formed part of the boundary between Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15:8). It may correspond to the ‘Valley of Baca’ (Psalm 84:6), due to the balsam trees that were there (1 Chronicles 14:14-15). These are named, literally, ‘weepers’ because of their drops of milky sap.” (Payne)

"(Psalm 84:6; R.V., "valley of weeping, " marg., "or balsam trees"), probably a valley in some part of Palestine, or generally some one of the valleys through which pilgrims had to pass on their way to the sanctuary of Jehovah on Zion; or it may be figuratively "a valley of weeping."" Easton's Bible Dictionary

"BACA ba'-ka bakha': In the King James Version in Psalm 84:6, where the Revised Version (British and American) has "the valley of Weeping," with a marginal variant which is best put in the form, "the valley of the balsam-trees." The word is elsewhere used only in the duplicated account of one of David's battles (2 Samuel 5:23, 24 1 Chronicles 14:14, 15). There the translation is "the mulberry trees," with "the balsam-trees" in the margin in the Revised Version (British and American). Conjecturally the word is, by variant spelling, of the stem which denotes weeping; the tree is called "weeper" from some habit of the trickling of its gum or of the moisture on it; the valley of weeping is not a geographical locality, but a picturesque expression for the experiences of those whose strength is in Yahweh, and who through His grace find their sorrows changed into blessings." - Willis J. Beecher

Purveyors of the Islamic dissimulation/taqiyyah - that is, lying and engaging in the dissimulation of half-truths in the way of "Allah", that claim Psalms 84 is a reference to a pilgrimage to Mecca rather than YHWH's temple in Zion - while leaving out the location pin "in Zion" that occurs in the very same passage they cite - include the famous Greek sophist styled entertainer, Ahmed Deedat, his self-described disciple "Dr." Zakir Naik, and the evermore amusing Yusuf Estes. At that link he dithers on about the Arabic language - which did not exist prior to the Christian era, or even enjoy a written form until around the 4th century AD - that serves as an anesthetizing prelude to Estes' later omission of the only germane portion of Psalms 84.

All this searching for Islam, Mecca and Mohammed in the Bible nonsense is understandable, since Muhammad's followers desperately wish that Muhammad's "Allah" had something to do with the God of the Jews and Christians YHWH, otherwise they have to come to the realization that they follow the false prophet Muhammad alone. Yet all their searching is easily and readily identifiable as being nothing more than a futile exercise, once one learns that there is absolutely no historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, or it's Kaaba before the early 5th century when Asa’d Abu Karb built it for Arabian Star Family worship. The Quraish pagan's black stone idol is still housed in their Kaaba, and is venerated and prostrated toward five times a day by Muhammad's followers.

Let alone the geographical absurdity that Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael ever had anything whatsoever to do with Mecca, since the evidence suggests they were never within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built, in the 4th century AD. As so often is the case, when so many Bible-ignorant Muslims parrot the same nonsense in unison, you will generally find the fingerprints of their famous Greek sophist styled entertainer and deceiver Ahmed Deedat, behind the foolishness.

Update as of 10-2015, while the passage from scripture has been changed to the KJV, it ends after verse 6 and censors out verse 7, because of course verse 7 pins the actual location of the pilgrimage. 7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God.

Few subjects demonstrate the Islamization and anti-Zionism of Wikipedia more than the struggle over the content of this article. Self-described "Palestinian" Tiamut and pro-"Palestinian" anti-Zionist Zero0000 repeatedly censor the scripture cited in the article, to advance what even they must surely recognize is a lie.

While Tiamut is unapologetically a "Palestinian" grinding his axe, on a visit to Zero0000's home page we find his suggestion: "I do not have a personal connection, either by family, descent, or religion, with the people and places I write about in Wikipedia.", in a childishly transparent effort to suggest he would have no reason for bias. Yet a review of the articles he lists on his page, reveal that his Wikipedia efforts are consistently anti-Zionist and pro-"Palestinian", and belie his self-portrayal regarding bias. His broad-brush vandalism of the article on 28 March 20 12- was done under the cloak of "Undid revision 484237448 by PeterWaldo I don't know the details of this dispute, but I know you can't write 'It is absurdly claimed' in a Wikipedia article under any circumstances."

Nobody would argue that the work - of whoever authored the poorly written and irrelevant paragraph he cited - should have been repaired or removed. But Zero0000 instead undid my entire undo, that once again undid the censorship of the location of the pilgrimage of Psalms 84 as being IN ZION, along with considerable other article modification and clarification. This was a repeat of Zero0000's 4 March 2012 major alteration and broad brush vandalism vaguely excused away with: "Back out mish-mash of original research, copyright violations and poor sources."

At this link is an earlier version of the article that was little more than false Islamic propaganda - as so many articles related to Islam in Wikipedia are - that listed "Arguments for the identification of..." with no arguments against.

Here's the reverted version in which Tiamut destroyed the content - not item by item - but totally destroyed the article with spurious, vague and phony excuses such as "Some of it might be saved if secondary sources can be found. But its not clearly written anyway and should probably be redone from scratch." Also complaining "...they are primary sourced OR." As if an article that is about a bible verse should be prohibited from using the Bible verse! Reverting the article to the bogus Psalms verse quoted from a book written by a Mormon, that Tiamut or someone still even censored out - removed - "in Zion" from, which is the actual location of the pilgrimage to THE temple in THE Holy Land.

Reverted accepting some of Tiamut's changes like removing BOTH arguments for and against, but segregating into separate categories Islamic fictional tradition, scripture, Islamic writers etc.

Latest attempt at truth.- How can anyone compete with "Palestinians" most of whom live off of western welfare and have nothing better to do all day than sit around propagandizing Wikipedia articles and obscuring truth?

Here's the current version that was reverted all the way back to the original lie, with scripture quoted from a Mormon's book and even then having the portion of the passage censor out "in Zion".

Here's the article after changes made such as segregating 7th century Islamic so-called "tradition" from the factual portions of the article and adding an uncensored version of scripture with the "in Zion" intact.


	Brother Pete \| home Islam-Christian Forum Part 1 Part 2 ISLAM 101 \| JIHAD CONQUEST TERRORISM \| MECCA \| UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK \| THE HAJJ AND UMRAH \| ANTI-ZIONISM \| BANU QURAYZA MASSACRE \| THE SABIANS & ISLAM \| SIMON MAGUS, GNOSTICISM, THE EBIONITES & ISLAM \| MUHAMMAD'S NIGHT JOURNEY \| HAGAR & ISHMAEL \| CHILDREN OF THE FLESH \| THE TWELVE SONS / TRIBES OF ISHMAEL \| ORIGINS OF ISLAM \| BACA, BAKKAH & MECCA, MAKKAH \| VOLUNTARY DHIMMITUDE \| YHWH, YAHWEH, YESHUA, YAHSHUA \| OLDEST MOSQUE QIBLA \| ISLAM'S FABLES & FANTASIES \| MUHAMMAD'S CONUNDRUM \| QURAN INSPIRATION \| WHO WAS CRUCIFIED? \| YHWH MANIFEST IN FLESH \| ISLAM IS THE OPPOSITE \| SPIRIT OF GOD \| OLD TESTAMENT VIOLENCE \| INTERFAITH RELIGIOUS PLURALISM \| BIBLE IN THE QURAN \| SCRIPTURES OR QURAN CORRUPTED? \| FREE TRACTS FOR MUSLIMS \| QURAN 666 \| RESOURCES \| CONTACT US ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BACA, BAKKAH & MECCA, MAKKAH (video version) The name "Makka", is mentioned in Quran surah 48:24, and again in 33:50 (but in parentheses), and some suggest it is one and the same with the name "Bakka", that is supposedly found in Surah 3:96. But even if Mohammed had used two names for Mecca, Islam's holiest city and the epicenter of Muhammad's religion allegedly since Adam, it would still only be mentioned three times in the Quran. Compare this with the name "Jerusalem", which is mentioned over 800 times in the King James Bible. 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Few things more clearly demonstrate the absence of a love of truth among Muhammad's followers, and willingness to blindly parrot their dissimulating deceiving hero's taqiyyah, than this subject. The struggle over the content of this subject, that propagandizes with a transparent falsehood, also demonstrates the Islamization of Wikipedia. To discuss this subject and much more, please join us in the Islam-Christian Forum, by clicking here. There is no historical or archaeological record that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the 4th century AD, yet some Muslims try to suggest that there is a scriptural reference to Mecca mentioned in the Old Testament as "Baca", by removing the following verse from context and trying to suggest a similarity between the 3,000 year old Hebrew name "Baca" and the 7th century Quraish Arabic word "Bakkah", in the Quran. Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. Their excitement builds as the term "well" is mentioned in the same verse, as if perhaps the well of Zamzam was the only well on earth. This even though actual Islamic history recorded that the well of Zamzam was dug by Mohammed's grandfather Abdel Mutaleb in the 6th century, when it was dedicated to the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn devil religion, Asaf and Naelah. Please see the Hajj and Umrah page for more on that subject. But blessedly we can set all the speculation aside once we discover that the most obvious difficulty with these claims is the very next verse: 84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God. No matter which Bible version is used, they all indicate the same thing. Let alone that Zion is mentioned 153 times in the Bible because it is the name of the easternmost hill of the city of Jerusalem. "Zion" is a place name and synonym for Jerusalem. Thus we see this passage describing a pilgrimage to ZION - to Jerusalem - to the Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs. Baca simply being a stop along the way. Since the well of Zamzam lies 1400 kilometers across harsh barren desert, away from the temple site in Jerusalem, the whole notion that this verse has anything to do with Mecca is obviously utterly ridiculous. (URL) Here is the way Muhammad's followers partially, and thus deceptively, quote Psalms 84 from the Jewish Study Bible, in the Wikipedia article (as of 9-1-14) as well as perhaps in thousands of websites and no shortage of YouTube videos: "How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ..... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ..... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked." So what do the verses say that Muhammad's followers replaced with the "....."? L et's investigate the passage, and put in bold red font what was omitted, in this typical exercise in Islamic dissimulation/taqiyyah: "How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the LORD; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself in which to set her young, near Your altar, O LORD of hosts, my king and my God. Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Selah. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing. They go from rampart to rampart, appearing before God in Zion. O Lord, God of hosts, hear my prayer; give ear, O God of Jacob. O God, behold our shield, look upon the face of Your anointed. Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God’s house than dwell in the tents of the wicked."* Is it a surprise that the parrots of the Greek sophist styled entertainers and masters of deception like Ahmed Deedat, his self-described disciple "Dr." Zakir Naik, and others like Yusuf Estes - all three of whom peddle this ridiculous notion with which they dupe their sorely deceived Bible-ignorant geography-challenged adoring minions - censored out the only verse that is germane to the location of the pilgrimage described! Sometimes the NIV is cited, while again, deceptively censoring out verse 7 that pins the location. Here's how it reads: 6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion. Let alone the abject ignorance to scripture, history and particularly geography required, to suggest that YHWH's people turned their backs on their temple in Jerusalem - in Zion where the temple mount still stands - to wander across 1400 kilometers of unexplored, untraveled, harsh, dry, waterless, barren, desert wasteland, over a thousand years before a caravan route was established along the Red Sea in Arabia, to go to a town in the SW Arabian desert that did not exist until 2,000 years later in the 4th century AD. Then presumably they marched around the Quraish's black stone idol and 5th-century Kaaba seven times, and then wandered back home to Jerusalem! Doesn't that make about as much sense as believing Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael made the same trip, at an even earlier point in time? In regard to the valley of Baca, which means balsam trees and weeping, web search - battle jerusalem balsam trees - then try - mulberry balsam trees - “The Valley of Rephaim lay southwest of Jerusalem and formed part of the boundary between Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15:8). It may correspond to the ‘Valley of Baca’ (Psalm 84:6), due to the balsam trees that were there (1 Chronicles 14:14-15). These are named, literally, ‘weepers’ because of their drops of milky sap.” (Payne) "(Psalm 84:6; R.V., "valley of weeping, " marg., "or balsam trees"), probably a valley in some part of Palestine, or generally some one of the valleys through which pilgrims had to pass on their way to the sanctuary of Jehovah on Zion; or it may be figuratively "a valley of weeping."" Easton's Bible Dictionary "BACA ba'-ka bakha': In the King James Version in Psalm 84:6, where the Revised Version (British and American) has "the valley of Weeping," with a marginal variant which is best put in the form, "the valley of the balsam-trees." The word is elsewhere used only in the duplicated account of one of David's battles (2 Samuel 5:23, 24 1 Chronicles 14:14, 15). There the translation is "the mulberry trees," with "the balsam-trees" in the margin in the Revised Version (British and American). Conjecturally the word is, by variant spelling, of the stem which denotes weeping; the tree is called "weeper" from some habit of the trickling of its gum or of the moisture on it; the valley of weeping is not a geographical locality, but a picturesque expression for the experiences of those whose strength is in Yahweh, and who through His grace find their sorrows changed into blessings." - Willis J. Beecher Following is the Jewish Study Bible from which many Muslim dissimulators partially, and thus intentionally deceptively, quote: Islamic Dissimulation (URL) Purveyors of the Islamic dissimulation/taqiyyah - that is, lying and engaging in the dissimulation of half-truths in the way of "Allah", that claim Psalms 84 is a reference to a pilgrimage to Mecca rather than YHWH's temple in Zion - while leaving out the location pin "in Zion" that occurs in the very same passage they cite - include the famous Greek sophist styled entertainer, Ahmed Deedat, his self-described disciple "Dr." Zakir Naik, and the evermore amusing Yusuf Estes. At that link he dithers on about the Arabic language - which did not exist prior to the Christian era, or even enjoy a written form until around the 4th century AD - that serves as an anesthetizing prelude to Estes' later omission of the only germane portion of Psalms 84. All this searching for Islam, Mecca and Mohammed in the Bible nonsense is understandable, since Muhammad's followers desperately wish that Muhammad's "Allah" had something to do with the God of the Jews and Christians YHWH, otherwise they have to come to the realization that they follow the false prophet Muhammad alone. Yet all their searching is easily and readily identifiable as being nothing more than a futile exercise, once one learns that there is absolutely no historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, or it's Kaaba before the early 5th century when Asa’d Abu Karb built it for Arabian Star Family worship. The Quraish pagan's black stone idol is still housed in their Kaaba, and is venerated and prostrated toward five times a day by Muhammad's followers. Let alone the geographical absurdity that Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael ever had anything whatsoever to do with Mecca, since the evidence suggests they were never within 1,000 kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built, in the 4th century AD. As so often is the case, when so many Bible-ignorant Muslims parrot the same nonsense in unison, you will generally find the fingerprints of their famous Greek sophist styled entertainer and deceiver Ahmed Deedat, behind the foolishness. ISLAMIZATION OF WIKIPEDIA Update as of 10-2015, while the passage from scripture has been changed to the KJV, it ends after verse 6 and censors out verse 7, because of course verse 7 pins the actual location of the pilgrimage. 7 They go from strength to strength, every one of them in Zion appeareth before God. Few subjects demonstrate the Islamization and anti-Zionism of Wikipedia more than the struggle over the content of this article. Self-described "Palestinian" Tiamut and pro-"Palestinian" anti-Zionist Zero0000 repeatedly censor the scripture cited in the article, to advance what even they must surely recognize is a lie. While Tiamut is unapologetically a "Palestinian" grinding his axe, on a visit to Zero0000's home page we find his suggestion: "I do not have a personal connection, either by family, descent, or religion, with the people and places I write about in Wikipedia.", in a childishly transparent effort to suggest he would have no reason for bias. Yet a review of the articles he lists on his page, reveal that his Wikipedia efforts are consistently anti-Zionist and pro-"Palestinian", and belie his self-portrayal regarding bias. His broad-brush vandalism of the article on 28 March 20 12- was done under the cloak of "Undid revision 484237448 by PeterWaldo I don't know the details of this dispute, but I know you can't write 'It is absurdly claimed' in a Wikipedia article under any circumstances." Nobody would argue that the work - of whoever authored the poorly written and irrelevant paragraph he cited - should have been repaired or removed. But Zero0000 instead undid my entire undo, that once again undid the censorship of the location of the pilgrimage of Psalms 84 as being IN ZION, along with considerable other article modification and clarification. This was a repeat of Zero0000's 4 March 2012 major alteration and broad brush vandalism vaguely excused away with: "Back out mish-mash of original research, copyright violations and poor sources." This article is a testament as to what has happened to Wikipedia, as well as portending as to where it is headed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bakkah#Vandalism At this link is an earlier version of the article that was little more than false Islamic propaganda - as so many articles related to Islam in Wikipedia are - that listed "Arguments for the identification of..." with no arguments against. Here's a revision that included "Arguments against..." Here's the reverted version in which Tiamut destroyed the content - not item by item - but totally destroyed the article with spurious, vague and phony excuses such as "Some of it might be saved if secondary sources can be found. But its not clearly written anyway and should probably be redone from scratch." Also complaining "...they are primary sourced OR." As if an article that is about a bible verse should be prohibited from using the Bible verse! Reverting the article to the bogus Psalms verse quoted from a book written by a Mormon, that Tiamut or someone still even censored out - removed - "in Zion" from, which is the actual location of the pilgrimage to THE temple in THE Holy Land. Another revision including the arguments for and against again. Censored out again by the Islamist Tiamut with the censored bible verse in it. Reverted accepting some of Tiamut's changes like removing BOTH arguments for and against, but segregating into separate categories Islamic fictional tradition, scripture, Islamic writers etc. Reverted back to pure Islamic propaganda and lies by Taimut. Another attempt at truth. Reverted Tiamut Latest attempt at truth.- How can anyone compete with "Palestinians" most of whom live off of western welfare and have nothing better to do all day than sit around propagandizing Wikipedia articles and obscuring truth? Here's the current version that was reverted all the way back to the original lie, with scripture quoted from a Mormon's book and even then having the portion of the passage censor out "in Zion". Here's the article after changes made such as segregating 7th century Islamic so-called "tradition" from the factual portions of the article and adding an uncensored version of scripture with the "in Zion" intact. Isn't it absolutely unimaginable, that someone actually believe they are serving God by repeatedly censoring the truth out of a Bible verse, to advance what they know is a lie. *The Jewish Study Bible: Jewish Publication Society Tanakh Translation edited by Adele Berlin, Marc Zvi Brettler, Michael A. Fishbane