WHO WAS CRUCIFIED?

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WHO WAS CRUCIFIED?

Mohammed's followers are filled with complete resolve regarding who was not crucified:

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Even the internal evidence in the verse suggests a contradiction. Jews are the ones that are supposedly quoted as boasting "We killed Christ Jesus...". Since Muslims understand that the term "Christ" means "Messiah", then the question begs, why would the Jews be quoted as recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, but then kill Him? But that's a separate discussion.

What we discover from that verse is that, unlike any other religion, Mohammed taught his followers specifically what to disbelieve, as part of the very core of his 7th century religion, while leaving an absolute vacuum as to just what Muslims are to believe. When we ask them who was crucified, it seems we are offered as many different answers, as Muslims that we ask. Thus Islam emerges as the only, anti-another-religion, religion, by design. In other words Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph.

There is perhaps no sect of Judaism that does not believe that Jesus was killed. Of course there has not been a single Christian over the last nearly two thousand years that has disbelieved that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save us from dying in sin, because that is what the new covenant (or testament) is about. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied:

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

New Testament fulfillment

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming:

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Who Muslims Say Was Crucified (URL)

If someone didn't believe Jesus was crucified it would be impossible for them to be a Christian. So Christians and Jews are in complete resolve, and without doubt, regarding who was crucified. Yet when we ask Muslims we find, for example:

"I believe that a true disciple of Jesus took up the cross and died for him knowing that Jesus would raise him again from the dead. I also believe that the true disciple was not one of the twelve, was not even a Jew but was in fact a Gentile."

"If I recall correctly, Narrations state that There was a guy who used to oppress jesus PBUH So Allah turned the guy into His Likeness (When Exactly I don't remember Maybe during the time of carrying the cross maybe Before his Capture...) and the Guy was Executed instead of Jesus PBUH so it was made to appear that Jesus PBUH was, but he wasn't."

"The Disciple (JUDAS) Who betrayed him was hanged, (God changed him to the shape of Jesus), And before they take him to Court, He keep saying I am not Jesus, [but] The soldiers Beat him so much until he Confess to be Jesus, same as the American Soldiers do in Iraq war."

So Judas was hanged, apparently before he went to court looking like Jesus, or something like that. If you Yahoo - judas was crucified - you will find no shortage of Muslims that believe it indeed was Judas that was crucified. However the New Testament informs us that Judas hanged himself, some time before the crucifixion, as the confused description above seems to acknowledge.

By many accounts Allah put Jesus face on someone else. For example one report says that they came to Jesus' house to get Him, but he had already been lifted to Allah, and when the guy that went in to look for Him came back out, Allah had changed his face to look like Jesus, so they crucified him. After taking this look-alike down from the cross they decided that his face matched Jesus' face but that his body wasn't a match. Consider how that matches the famous gnostic heretic Basilides account.

From the person who posted the last two accounts: "There is room for whichever of the situations came to pass - the Holy Qur'an has not determined any particular situation. Therefore, Allah alone knows what really happened."

Muhammad's followers will often invoke that phrase, to excuse themselves, from seeking out the truth.

"...the quran says, we removed Isa (AS), and the order became confusing to them, but they did not kill Isa (AS).

A group of soldiers went into his hiding place and they brought out a person that looked exactly like him, even talked like him. And he keep telling them that they are mistaken, but they would not believe him. Now who was the substitute? Some say he was one of the soldiers, some say he Might have been Judas. All we know is he was not ISA (AS)."

Following from some of their more official sources that were presented.

"al-Baydawi said (p. 135) - "A group of Jews cursed Christ and his mother. He invoked evil on them and, may He be exalted, turned them into monkeys and swine. The Jews gathered together to kill him, but God, may He be exalted, informed him (Jesus) that He was going to lift him up to heaven. Thus, (Jesus) said to his companions, `Who would like to have my likeness cast on him and be killed and crucified, then enter the paradise?' One of them volunteered (to do so) and God cast on him Christ's likeness. He was then arrested, crucified and killed. It is also said that (the crucified one) was a traitor who went with the mob to guide them to Christ (he meant Judas), thus God cast on him the likeness of Jesus and he was arrested, crucified and killed."

Qurtubi - "While explaining the words of the Qur'an: (but they were deluded by resemblance), master exegete, Dahhak says: It so transpired that, following the intention of Jews to kill Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) his disciples assembled at a given place. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) joined them there. It was Iblis who gave the address of Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) to the execution squad standing ready for the mission. Four thousand men surrounded the suspected house. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) said to his disciples: 'Is one of you willing to go out and be killed and then be in Paradise with me?' One of them offered to do so. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) gave him his shirt and head-cover. Then, cast on him was the resemblance of Jesus and as soon as he came out, the Jews, believing him to be Jesus, caught him and crucified him, and Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) was lifted.

Mazhari - "According to some reports, the Jews had sent a person known to Arabs as Teetlanoos to kill Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). He did not find Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) in the house for he was already lifted by Allah towards Himself. So, when this person came out of the house, he had been made to resemble the looks of Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). The Jews took him to be Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). Thus, they took away their own man and killed him."

The obvious difficulty with all of these views is that they are pure speculation because Mohammed left his followers empty handed and resolved only in disbelief. In other words, while Jews and Christians are in complete resolve as to who was crucified, Muslims emerge exactly as Mohammed mischaracterized Jews and Christians as "... those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow ..."

When asked where Jesus is now, we find a little more agreement, but still many versions.

"Isa :alayhis: is not in a spiritual state, but in a physical state. He was physically lifted up. He will return, live his life out, and die a natural death."

"The Qur'an reveals, among many other glad tidings, that Jesus (pbuh), one of God's messengers, is not dead and was not put to death.

Qur'an 3:55 and Qur'an 4:157-58 head the list of those verses that relate how Jesus (pbuh) was not killed but was raised alive to God's presence. Jesus (pbuh), who now lives in God's presence, will return to Earth during the End Times."

Isn't that interesting? Muslims believe that Jesus was taken up bodily to their Allah just before the crucifixion, will spend at least a couple of thousand years with Allah, and then come back to earth for the end times, only to die a physical natural death!

Indeed it would seem Mohammed's religion requires that Jesus to come back and die. Through one of his many instructors Mohammed lifted a concept from an Egyptian apocryphal fable titled "The First Gospel of The Infancy of Jesus Christ". The fable claims that Jesus spoke as an infant, while still in the cradle, and said:

"Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, that word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel to thee..."

With Mohammed's spin the infant Jesus was supposed to have said:

Surah 19:30 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; 31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; 32 "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; 33 "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

So we can see Muslims are stuck with it. Jesus has to die someday, even though their most widely held view is that He was raised physically to Allah, and hasn't died yet.

Sura 4.57 ...but they killed him not, nor crucified him... 158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

There can be no doubt as to who inspired a religion that, at it's core, resolves it's adherents as to what to disbelieve. A religion that requires it's followers to reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind, as revealed through all of the prophets and witnesses of that record, that God's people have followed through two covenants, over 3500 years. Rejecting God's Word to follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of a single, murderous, sex slave capturing, stepson's wife taking, child doing, thief, as revealed through Islam's own books. A "prophet" - without fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, whom not a single witness ever heard "Allah" or Gabriel's voice speak to. Indeed a "religion", whose single most important fundamental, is antichrist:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

To our Muslim could-become brethren:

1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


	Brother Pete \| home Islam-Christian Forum Part 1 Part 2 ISLAM 101 \| JIHAD CONQUEST TERRORISM \| MECCA \| UNFORGIVABLE SIN OF SHIRK \| THE HAJJ AND UMRAH \| ANTI-ZIONISM \| BANU QURAYZA MASSACRE \| THE SABIANS & ISLAM \| SIMON MAGUS, GNOSTICISM, THE EBIONITES & ISLAM \| MUHAMMAD'S NIGHT JOURNEY \| HAGAR & ISHMAEL \| CHILDREN OF THE FLESH \| THE TWELVE SONS / TRIBES OF ISHMAEL \| ORIGINS OF ISLAM \| BACA, BAKKAH & MECCA, MAKKAH \| VOLUNTARY DHIMMITUDE \| YHWH, YAHWEH, YESHUA, YAHSHUA \| OLDEST MOSQUE QIBLA \| ISLAM'S FABLES & FANTASIES \| MUHAMMAD'S CONUNDRUM \| QURAN INSPIRATION \| WHO WAS CRUCIFIED? \| YHWH MANIFEST IN FLESH \| ISLAM IS THE OPPOSITE \| SPIRIT OF GOD \| OLD TESTAMENT VIOLENCE \| INTERFAITH RELIGIOUS PLURALISM \| BIBLE IN THE QURAN \| SCRIPTURES OR QURAN CORRUPTED? \| FREE TRACTS FOR MUSLIMS \| QURAN 666 \| RESOURCES \| CONTACT US ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ WHO WAS CRUCIFIED? Mohammed's followers are filled with complete resolve regarding who was not crucified: Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Even the internal evidence in the verse suggests a contradiction. Jews are the ones that are supposedly quoted as boasting "We killed Christ Jesus...". Since Muslims understand that the term "Christ" means "Messiah", then the question begs, why would the Jews be quoted as recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, but then kill Him? But that's a separate discussion. What we discover from that verse is that, unlike any other religion, Mohammed taught his followers specifically what to disbelieve, as part of the very core of his 7th century religion, while leaving an absolute vacuum as to just what Muslims are to believe. When we ask them who was crucified, it seems we are offered as many different answers, as Muslims that we ask. Thus Islam emerges as the only, anti-another-religion, religion, by design. In other words Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. There is perhaps no sect of Judaism that does not believe that Jesus was killed. Of course there has not been a single Christian over the last nearly two thousand years that has disbelieved that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save us from dying in sin, because that is what the new covenant (or testament) is about. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant. Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied: Old Testament Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. New Testament fulfillment Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming: Old Testament Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. New Testament John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. Old Testament Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. New Testament 1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Who Muslims Say Was Crucified (URL) If someone didn't believe Jesus was crucified it would be impossible for them to be a Christian. So Christians and Jews are in complete resolve, and without doubt, regarding who was crucified. Yet when we ask Muslims we find, for example: "I believe that a true disciple of Jesus took up the cross and died for him knowing that Jesus would raise him again from the dead. I also believe that the true disciple was not one of the twelve, was not even a Jew but was in fact a Gentile." "If I recall correctly, Narrations state that There was a guy who used to oppress jesus PBUH So Allah turned the guy into His Likeness (When Exactly I don't remember Maybe during the time of carrying the cross maybe Before his Capture...) and the Guy was Executed instead of Jesus PBUH so it was made to appear that Jesus PBUH was, but he wasn't." "The Disciple (JUDAS) Who betrayed him was hanged, (God changed him to the shape of Jesus), And before they take him to Court, He keep saying I am not Jesus, [but] The soldiers Beat him so much until he Confess to be Jesus, same as the American Soldiers do in Iraq war." So Judas was hanged, apparently before he went to court looking like Jesus, or something like that. If you Yahoo - judas was crucified - you will find no shortage of Muslims that believe it indeed was Judas that was crucified. However the New Testament informs us that Judas hanged himself, some time before the crucifixion, as the confused description above seems to acknowledge. By many accounts Allah put Jesus face on someone else. For example one report says that they came to Jesus' house to get Him, but he had already been lifted to Allah, and when the guy that went in to look for Him came back out, Allah had changed his face to look like Jesus, so they crucified him. After taking this look-alike down from the cross they decided that his face matched Jesus' face but that his body wasn't a match. Consider how that matches the famous gnostic heretic Basilides account. From the person who posted the last two accounts: "There is room for whichever of the situations came to pass - the Holy Qur'an has not determined any particular situation. Therefore, Allah alone knows what really happened." Muhammad's followers will often invoke that phrase, to excuse themselves, from seeking out the truth. "...the quran says, we removed Isa (AS), and the order became confusing to them, but they did not kill Isa (AS). A group of soldiers went into his hiding place and they brought out a person that looked exactly like him, even talked like him. And he keep telling them that they are mistaken, but they would not believe him. Now who was the substitute? Some say he was one of the soldiers, some say he Might have been Judas. All we know is he was not ISA (AS)." Following from some of their more official sources that were presented. "al-Baydawi said (p. 135) - "A group of Jews cursed Christ and his mother. He invoked evil on them and, may He be exalted, turned them into monkeys and swine. The Jews gathered together to kill him, but God, may He be exalted, informed him (Jesus) that He was going to lift him up to heaven. Thus, (Jesus) said to his companions, `Who would like to have my likeness cast on him and be killed and crucified, then enter the paradise?' One of them volunteered (to do so) and God cast on him Christ's likeness. He was then arrested, crucified and killed. It is also said that (the crucified one) was a traitor who went with the mob to guide them to Christ (he meant Judas), thus God cast on him the likeness of Jesus and he was arrested, crucified and killed." Qurtubi - "While explaining the words of the Qur'an: (but they were deluded by resemblance), master exegete, Dahhak says: It so transpired that, following the intention of Jews to kill Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) his disciples assembled at a given place. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) joined them there. It was Iblis who gave the address of Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) to the execution squad standing ready for the mission. Four thousand men surrounded the suspected house. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) said to his disciples: 'Is one of you willing to go out and be killed and then be in Paradise with me?' One of them offered to do so. Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) gave him his shirt and head-cover. Then, cast on him was the resemblance of Jesus and as soon as he came out, the Jews, believing him to be Jesus, caught him and crucified him, and Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) was lifted. Mazhari - "According to some reports, the Jews had sent a person known to Arabs as Teetlanoos to kill Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). He did not find Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S) in the house for he was already lifted by Allah towards Himself. So, when this person came out of the house, he had been made to resemble the looks of Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). The Jews took him to be Sayyidna 'Isa (A.S). Thus, they took away their own man and killed him." The obvious difficulty with all of these views is that they are pure speculation because Mohammed left his followers empty handed and resolved only in disbelief. In other words, while Jews and Christians are in complete resolve as to who was crucified, Muslims emerge exactly as Mohammed mischaracterized Jews and Christians as "... those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow ..." When asked where Jesus is now, we find a little more agreement, but still many versions. "Isa :alayhis: is not in a spiritual state, but in a physical state. He was physically lifted up. He will return, live his life out, and die a natural death." "The Qur'an reveals, among many other glad tidings, that Jesus (pbuh), one of God's messengers, is not dead and was not put to death. Qur'an 3:55 and Qur'an 4:157-58 head the list of those verses that relate how Jesus (pbuh) was not killed but was raised alive to God's presence. Jesus (pbuh), who now lives in God's presence, will return to Earth during the End Times." Isn't that interesting? Muslims believe that Jesus was taken up bodily to their Allah just before the crucifixion, will spend at least a couple of thousand years with Allah, and then come back to earth for the end times, only to die a physical natural death! Indeed it would seem Mohammed's religion requires that Jesus to come back and die. Through one of his many instructors Mohammed lifted a concept from an Egyptian apocryphal fable titled "The First Gospel of The Infancy of Jesus Christ". The fable claims that Jesus spoke as an infant, while still in the cradle, and said: "Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, that word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel to thee..." With Mohammed's spin the infant Jesus was supposed to have said: Surah 19:30 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; 31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; 32 "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; 33 "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! So we can see Muslims are stuck with it. Jesus has to die someday, even though their most widely held view is that He was raised physically to Allah, and hasn't died yet. Sura 4.57 ...but they killed him not, nor crucified him... 158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- There can be no doubt as to who inspired a religion that, at it's core, resolves it's adherents as to what to disbelieve. A religion that requires it's followers to reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind, as revealed through all of the prophets and witnesses of that record, that God's people have followed through two covenants, over 3500 years. Rejecting God's Word to follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of a single, murderous, sex slave capturing, stepson's wife taking, child doing, thief, as revealed through Islam's own books. A "prophet" - without fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, whom not a single witness ever heard "Allah" or Gabriel's voice speak to. Indeed a "religion", whose single most important fundamental, is antichrist: 1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]. To our Muslim could-become brethren: 1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. presentation and video version